Yvette Carnell: Duke University Students Upset Over Racial Study, but They Probably Shouldn’t Be

Apparently, black students at Duke University are upset over a study which found that black students at the school are more likely to switch from tough majors to easy ones. Whether these students actually have any right to be upset, is still an unresolved question for me. Before I begin, allow me a brief summary.

The study, entitled “What Happens After Enrollment? An Analysis of the Time Path of Racial Differences in GPA and Major Choice,” studied the behavior patterns of freshmen students who entered Duke in 2001 and 2002. According to the study, over 50 percent of black students who initially chose a difficult major, such as engineering, ended up switching to humanities or social sciences. In contrast, only 33 percent of white women and just 8 percent of white men switched from difficult to easy majors.

And here’s the kicker: The study is being used by opponents of affirmative action to demonstrate the difficulties experienced by black students at elite universities.

For what it’s worth, I have to admit that I haven’t seen the data, and how the data is chopped and screwed is always important to me. But if the data is right, these Duke students have a problem, and it isn’t with the publishers of the study. The other day, I was rereading the article, Why Chinese Mothers Are Superior, and this part stuck out for me:

Western parents worry a lot about their children’s self-esteem. But as a parent, one of the worst things you can do for your child’s self-esteem is to let them give up. On the flip side, there’s nothing better for building confidence than learning you can do something you thought you couldn’t.

There’s a lot of quit in us, not just as black people, but as Americans. And I wonder whether we as black people have inadvertently exacerbated the problem by going to extra lengths to protect our children’s self esteem. Even if the SAT is biased, does that mean you can’t do well on it? Even if you don’t test well, does that mean you can’t, with a little practice and dedication, do well on tests? And this is coming from someone who tested well in class, but certainly didn’t blow the doors off the SAT. The thing is, when I look back, I don’t blame the SAT. I blame myself. I always preferred words to numbers, and gave far too much attention to English lit and not enough attention to trig. In the end, I brought home an OK score, but I could’ve done better. Much better.

So for me, the question I’d pose to the Duke students is -why are you quitting? Why are you giving up? Yeah, I question the intent of the study’s author just as much as you do. Now, let’s get back to you. Let’s discuss why you switched majors. Was it really because you discovered a passion for pottery that you dropped your econ major? All I’m asking is whether you panicked and jumped ship? And if that be true, whether we can fix that?

All I’m saying is that sometimes you have to feel bad about yourself in order to feel better about yourself. Sometimes you have to get a “D” in order to develop the master plan to get you to an “A”. In the in between time, you build your fortitude. You learn what exists deep down and what you can pull from. You don’t get any of that if you switch your major from engineering to communications (no offense to all my communications majors out there).

Yvette Carnell is a former Capitol Hill and campaign staffer turned writer. She is currently an editor and contributor to Yourblackworld.

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Mimawright2

Why are the Humanities and Social Sciences considered “easier”? I received a PhD in Comparative Literature which required fluency in two foreign languages plus mastery of Ancient and Modern Philosophy alongside “basic” knowledge on the history, [politics, culture and economics of Britain, Germany, France, Italy, the U.S., etc. I was also required to achieve fluency in two foreign languages at the B.A. level, and like most majors at my school, spent a year at a European university to take advanced classes in those languages. Sociologists must learn advanced mathematics, archival and field research often requires picking up skills within a few months that most folks get a couple of years to study –just to complete one chapter of a book.

The Natural Sciences are often hostile to women and minorities (ugly tales of black students being chosen as examples of stupidity by their professors in front of laughing white students, black students being barred from certain classes without explanation)… it seems to me it makes sense to find out why these students are leaving.

If we follow the logic of this study, we should conclude that ALL U.S. citizens are poor at math, reading, science, languages–because we lag woefully behind most industrial nations. Duke is also ranked below Harvard, so all Duke students *must be* dumber than Harvard students, etc. It seems this sort of ridiculous logic is only used when the author has a chance to malign groups that have spent most of their existence being labeled inferior.

http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGXZ26MK42CPGJ2FMIR3VXS4T4 flextime

What is Heisenberg principle, the 1st Law of Thermodynamics or Coulomb’s law?

Faculty

The scholarly paper has not appeared in a peer-reviewed jrnl. There’s a reason. And it is the “r” word–rejection.
KDub

One of the main problems with these types of studies is that they typically cause the uniformed to jump to all kinds of wild and unsubstantiated conclusions because either they merely aren’t motivated or don’t know how to look critically at the findings. Stereotypes are perpetuated and ignorance prevails. However, I appreciate being informed that such a study exists.
Nicj2008

I also agree that there is this stereotype that the humanities, social sciences, and arts are so much easiaer that “so called” more difficult courses of science and math. I do agree to some extent that there is a lack of emphasis on math and sciences within our society; not only among African Americans but among America in general. Rarely does a year go by that we don’t get an international report on the stats. comparing US test scores to the scores of other nations where education is taken more seriously. That being said, I think we have to dismiss this notion that the only respectable career fields for college students is doctor and lawyer. I say this as one of those African American students who switched from the more “difficult” course of biology to Journalism and Mass Communication (UNC-CH). Like most black students entering school I thought medicine was the place to go, not because that was what I really wanted to do but because thats what everyone seemed the most enthusiastic about. Going up to people and telling them that I want to be a doctor got a huge response from people in my community. But, early on I realized that I wasn’t taking bio for me, but for everyone else so I switched to journalism.AND i’ve never been more satisfied with myself. As someone who had always been terrified of taking risk, and disappointing others moving to journalism was a major decision for me. Reading your article, I wonder how many of those students at my rival school, DUKE, share my experience?
And although humanities, arts, and social sciences may not require the same commitment to studying as the “more difficult” majors, they do present their own set of unique challenges. As a journalism (photojournalism) student I am expected to communicate with complete strangers on a regular basis, and gain access to people’s personal lives in order to tell their story through writing or photography or video. Also as the only African American male in all of my photojournalism classes, living in a predominantly white area, gaining access is even more challenging. Times where I have to call a stranger and convince them to let me folllow their life, or where I am sitting in the computer lab editing photo/videos up until the early morning hours, I certainly feel like I am being challenged.
Although I agree that we should encourage black students to push themselves, it is also important that we don’t discredit those courses not traditionally seen as challenging. There are many definitions/paths to success and we shouldn’t be to quick to dismiss those who don’t follow the traditional path of doctor/lawyer
Scholar

Likewise, we must consider who is using the study “opponents of affirmative action.” Did they perform this study so they could have evidence to support their views? Why were just two years includeded and not a longer time frame? Did they they include the entire population of black students and white students? Did they include how many students switched from humanities and social scienes to sciences? Without understanding the methods behind the study, we cannot and should not make any assumptions.
Openfist247

Black Students over-analysed again. We can’t do anything without it being seen as negative.
YourFriendlyNeighborhoodDukie

The assumptions made by the author of this article follow the same pattern suggested by the study–that the black students “failed” and decided to switch to humanities for the “easy way out.” Did you take into account to possible lack of mentorship and support in the natural sciences for these students? Did you think about a possible “snowball effect” where the significant lack of African Americans in the field discouraged students from continuing their patterns? There is no evidence presented in the study (just assumptions) that black students decided to switch only because of academic inadequacy. Maybe if they had actually spoken to a number of students, their claims would be more justifiable.

Unlike the author of this article, I read the study, and it is very clear that there are gaping issues with its methodology. Furthermore, the study was an unpublished manuscript that never went through any peer revision. This study should not have been allowed to be released and DEFINITELY should not be used by the Supreme Court in a case against affirmative action which I feel is the most significant issue with this whole debate (not sure why that fact was left out of the article.)
DukeStudent

The assumptions made by the author of this article follow the same pattern suggested by the study–that the black students “failed” and decided to switch to humanities for the “easy way out.” Did you take into account to possible lack of mentorship and support in the natural sciences for these students? Did you think about a possible “snowball effect” where the significant lack of African Americans in the field discouraged students from continuing their patterns? There is no evidence presented in the study (just assumptions) that black students decided to switch only because of academic inadequacy. Maybe if they had actually spoken to a number of students, their claims would be more justifiable.

Unlike the author of this article, I read the study, and it is very clear that there are gaping issues with its methodology. Furthermore, the study was an unpublished manuscript that never went through any peer revision. This study should not have been allowed to be released and DEFINITELY should not be used by the Supreme Court in a case against affirmative action which I feel is the most significant issue with this whole debate (not sure why that fact was left out of the article.)
DukeStudent

The assumptions made by the author of this article follow the same pattern suggested by the study–that the black students “failed” and decided to switch to humanities for the “easy way out.” Did you take into account to possible lack of mentorship and support in the natural sciences for these students? Did you think about a possible “snowball effect” where the significant lack of African Americans in the field discouraged students from continuing their patterns? There is no evidence presented in the study (just assumptions) that black students decided to switch only because of academic inadequacy. Maybe if they had actually spoken to a number of students, their claims would be more justifiable.

Unlike the author of this article, I read the study, and it is very clear that there are gaping issues with its methodology. Furthermore, the study was an unpublished manuscript that never went through any peer revision. This study should not have been allowed to be released and DEFINITELY should not be used by the Supreme Court in a case against affirmative action which I feel is the most significant issue with this whole debate (not sure why that fact was left out of the article.)
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_EGXZ26MK42CPGJ2FMIR3VXS4T4 flextime

This is true of most colleges including HBCU’s! People leave science majors all the time in order to get out of school with an “easier” degree. Especially at white colleges there is little support and encouragement for blacks to stay in a scientific field.
DukeBlackStudent

I think we all need to pause and look at how the data was sampled, randomized, and collected. There are so many unanswered questions. I am a black Duke Student. I am a public policy major but I am also a pre-medical student. How did the researchers take this into account? What about the English and Psych and Sociology majors that are pre-health, pre-law, or pre-pharmacy? We have “easy majors” but we still take the science and engineering classes. The report did not account for the many students who do this. Also, let us be VERY clear. Duke has no easy major. English and African and African American Studies requires pages and pages of writing due each week for every class. We must read hundreds of pages in one night just for one class. How did the research account for the inabilities of science and engineering students to write and think critically the way humanities majors do? Trust me. As I take BIO 102 and Public Policy 116 at the same time, I use two completely different sides of my brain. Maybe that is where black students feel they can make the impact. To automatically assume that, we switched majors because it was too hard is insulting in every way.

Also, why did the author choose to correlate affirmative action with black students. I understand this is the social correlation that is made but as a supposedly academic paper, I expect better. This paper assumed all black students benefitted from affirmative action. What an insult! Look, all I know is I’m not an affirmative action child. I made a perfect SAT score, over a 4.0 in high school, a current 3.3 as a pre-med student at Duke and involved in multiple organizations in school PLUS a job. A black friend of mine scored over a 170 on her LSAT the FIRST time she took it with a 3.4 GPA. We deserve to be here.
DukeBlackStudent

AND! Like people before me have stated, there is a huge lack of STEM experts not just in the black community but in all of America. Pull the log out your eye before yanking the twig out of ours….